In this final franchise of this three part interview series with the current claimant to the stool of Okponkata, founder of the Jumbo Major House of Grand Bonny Kingdom, Tamunoala Chapp-Jumbo. The issues surrounding the nine lives of the caretaker committee set up in 2014, which was billed to self-exhaust in 2016; the issues of the finance committee, which is reportedly being investigated by the Force Criminal Investigation and Intelligence Department at the Police Headquarters, Louis Edet House, Abuja, and cleavages that have almost rendered the Elders Council of the House moribund were some of the issues he harps on.

Publisher of Kristina Reports, Godswill Jumbo took him on the various issues and herein below is presented the excerpts as e dey hot! Enjoy.

Now, on the issue of the House, a lot of people have made effort to find peace and bring the House together as one. Don’t you think that your claim of being installed as Chief of Jumbo House has further convoluted an already volatile situation?

No, I don’t because you know it is when there is absence of leadership that you know there is crisis. Now, the elders and chief makers of the House, I am talking of people who are by far older, who had made effort, as it were, and saw that the only way to move this House forward is to get a chief and decided, in their wisdom, to raise a chief to lead the House. Are you hearing me? Now, I have made some real good effort on every side to reach out to each and everyone. Let me also let you know this, before I was installed chief, I didn’t look for chieftaincy of Jumbo House, not once. I never asked for it, the elders had their meeting and then somebody sent for me and said that ‘look oh, so and so person has been taking interest in being the Chief of Jumbo House. You have not and we don’t know if you are interested but we have chosen you to be the chief in absentia. Okay, we know you are a very religious man, you may not want to but go and pray about it. We all have a common agreement that you are somebody we can trust. Right from your childhood, we have never known you to be somebody who can be involved in any fraudulent activity, we don’t know you to be somebody who has stolen in government or anywhere you have served up to the palace and local government, no bad report. Most of these people who are coming now, we know them, they don’t have a good pedigree. We don’t want people that will come and continue the looting and stealing from the House. So, please go and think about it, we give you so and so time, get back to us. And of course, I did pray about it and when I had the leading from God that this is what God wants me to do from different witnesses. I called him and said ‘Okay. I think it is okay by me’. Alright, but before my installation, I went round all of these persons; the only person I didn’t go to see was Jasper, because before then, he had taken a very hostile approach towards me because I decided to step out of the committee. Our tenure elapsed when we were in court, I called him and I said except there is something else you are gaining from this thing or something else, you hope to gain from these meetings, otherwise – yes, they took us to court but when we were in court, our tenure had elapsed – please, let us step down and hand over to the House.

So, when was the tenure of the caretaker committee supposed to end?

The tenure was supposed to have elapsed in you know, in that 2016, the first tenure was one year, 2nd tenure was two years, okay? It was supposed to elapse in 2016, I think around August or thereabout.

Okay, if I may ask, who set up the caretaker committee? Was it the Elders’ Council? Was it the Bonny Chiefs Council?

Who set it up I don’t know because I didn’t start with them from the very beginning.

But you were once a member.

It was much later when I fell out with Jasper, there was no secretary. I was in one of those meetings, Jasper said ‘why don’t you function as secretary for now? Let’s see how we can move the house forward.

So he nominated or appointed you.

Whether it is nomination or appointment, that was how we eventually got along.

But could that be valid? If it is a caretaker committee, it is supposed to report to those who formed it. So, if the constitution of that caretaker committee is to be distorted in any way, are they not supposed to report back to the makers of the caretaker committee? Maybe when the Governor appoints a caretaker committee for a local government, can the Chairman of that caretaker committee appoint another person to replace any member of that committee? Does such power exist?

Well, that’s what you will ask Jasper, me, I don’t know.

But you accepted.

I was only acting in the best interest of the house.

Without considering the validity of what you are going into.

Well, at a time, maybe I didn’t, but at a time we came for a general meeting of the house, where he fell out with the whole house as constituted, but I think in that meeting, he said he was introducing me to the house as the new secretary of the caretaker committee since Kalada Jene was no longer willing to function. Of course, nobody opposed, nobody challenged. So, I felt, in the best interest of the house, let me at that time take responsibility. It has always been my interest to move Jumbo House forward; that was why when our tenure expired on record I called him and told him, look Sir.

So, you were not been opportunistic?

Of course, I was not.

You wanted to be helpful to the house…

So, when he refused that was how I left him. I said look there is something else you want to gain but for me I don’t mind spending my money or time to move the House forward. So, these and other things made me step down, and left the committee because I didn’t see why when the tenure has elapsed they took it to court, they want to stay forever. I said things are not done that way.

But you said you have reached out to them…

Yes, I reached out to all of them.

So, what has been the outcomes?     

Well, when I met with Kalada Jene, I met with him, he is still looking for a way how we can move the House forward. He said we will come together and know what to do, the next thing, they went to court. So, going to court, of course, put a halt to every effort I was making because you cannot take me to court then, I still come to discuss with you when you are already in court for the same issue. So, we are just waiting for the court to decide. If they say the chieftaincy was not properly done as they have claimed, no problem. I will step down and I will be willing to work to unite the House and let us move the House forward. And then if on the other hand, the court says this chieftaincy has been done and properly done, I accept all of us to come together to move the House forward. The House is not my private property. It has never been and can never be. So, all I am looking for and asking for is let us all at this time be patient. Since we didn’t want dialogue, all we want is the court, let’s obey the court and wait, for the court.

Now, if we are to reference an aspect of what you just said that the people who nominated you said you have not been involved in any controversial issue. Was there a time that your name was being mentioned as the group that has – some said it was actually, N950million, another group in the Jumbo House that said it was N1.2billion – were you involved in anything like that?

Let me tell you how that came to be. I have had this very strong interest in ensuring that Jumbo House moves forward. One day, I was by Bende Street when I went where to service my generator. You know there is one man thee whether at 60 or 62 Bende Street where you have Asai’s father’s house. There is a man that sells generator there. While I was there I saw Asai. So, I went up to him and said ‘my brother, the situation of things in our House is becoming so very precarious. What can we do to bring peace between the Chief, Horace and the rest of the House? This is because by this time, there was the caretaker thing, there was the Elders Council, there was this faction, that faction and all that. So, Asai said well, it’s a good thing I came to him that he too had been burdened with this same issue; that what do we do? So, we decided that we are going to call a meeting of some persons and start talking to people and we are going to the Chief and possibly see how we can to talk to him. Let there be peace. So, we held two meetings where we invited Amaopusenibo Sunny Tamunoibi, he came, and few other persons here in Port Harcourt. So, we gave Asai the assignment of reaching out to Chief Horace to let him know that we would like to meet with him to see how we can discuss with him to reconcile the issues he has with the elders, with the cabinet members, and all that, so that the House can move forward. Of course, he was already an old man and going through the stress of one cause, one problem to another, I felt wasn’t the best thing for him. And, of course, it wasn’t in the best of the House. So, you can confirm this from Asai. He reported back that he made several attempts, he made several calls; when the Chief got to know that he was the one calling, his line was blocked. He couldn’t reach the Chief again. At that point, we all became frustrated and we all departed, started thinking of what other ways and what other things we could do to reach the Chief or to reach out to other persons that can talk to the Chief. At that point, there were some efforts that were being made to get him back to the Chiefs Council, which from what I gathered the Chief didn’t agree with, he was told to do this he did the other way and ended up not going back to the council.

Now, it was premised on this – my effort, you know very, very, transparent effort – that Asai, being a party on record in the suit that brought about that money I’m talking about, now called me and said, he’s the party on record and there’s some money that’s about to come to the House, that he would like me to join him, let’s get that money out. I asked him who the other person that should be, he said he’s still contemplating. Then I said, okay, I mentioned L.F. Jumbo, I mentioned Sunny Tamunoibi, he said okay, he would think about it. I only filled my own segment of the form, on the account opening form and left because I was going for another meeting that day. Well, one thing led to the other, two or three days later, he called me and said the money has been paid and I asked how much, he said about four hundred and something million. I didn’t get an alert for the money; so, I learnt. When I heard that, in my usual way, I called a few persons, I said ‘Ah God has helped Jumbo House oh, some money has come in about four hundred and something million’. I was in Bonny. You know when some of our people knew I was in Bonny they came to me at Finima, at Princess Lodge. We sat together and discussed; I said, ultimately, the elders of the house who are the owners of the house will decide on how this money would be spent. So, I contacted L.F. Jumbo. I told him, I contacted a few persons and mentioned to them, then I also told Asai that, ‘Sir, this money belongs to Jumbo House. We have to go and hand it over to the elders of the House’. Granted that you went to court and all that, Japheth is late now but you’re the party on record. Now, let’s go and let the House know. A meeting was fixed, we went to Bonny that day and it was held in L.F Jumbo’s House. Right there, he declared the money when we were going on our way.

Who declared?

Asai…

Okay

When we were going it was then I was made to understand that what came in was no longer four hundred and something million, it was two hundred and something million, hmm, I was taken aback. I said how come? He said…he now showed me an alert that said from Lucious (Nwosu); you know, two hundred and something, I said when you get there you will explain to them because, for me oh, what we were expecting…

This was before the meeting

Yeah, before the meeting. So for me oh what I’m expecting is that we were supposed to get about nine hundred million, okay? Well, if you say it is this amount, he said no, Lucious this, that that that. I said okay, when you get there explain to the meeting, the elders because you’re the party on record, okay? We got there I expected the elders of the house who before then have been communicated that what came in was four hundred and something million to question how did it come back to two something, nobody questioned; all they were after is what they were going to do this that that that…at the end.  

So, who presided over that meeting?

L. F. Jumbo was there, I think Edmund came for that meeting but he left; I think it was Robert…

That presided over that meeting?

Over that meeting, yes.  

As the Chairman of the Elders Council?

As it were…

Or a collection of elders

Well, I wouldn’t know maybe when you see him, you can ask him but all the elders who were there that day…

No, you were in that meeting

Yes, I was in that meeting.

Well, the communication you did, was it to the Elders Council because a collection of elders in Jumbo House is not the Elders Council.

Not communication I did, the communication that was made that day by Asai, okay?

Informing them that you were coming to update them on the new development. So, that’s what we want to clarify, the communication was it done to a collection of elders of Jumbo House or to the Elders’ Council of Jumbo House?

Whoever sent out the invite for the meeting will know.

So, you don’t know who sent out the invite?

No, I do not know, I do not know.

And you don’t know who?

Because Asai only told me… 

Yes

That look oh they have invited us to come and declare the money that was collected.

And he didn’t say who invited you?

No, he didn’t say but when we got there.

And you didn’t ask?

Of course, when I got there, he said the elders of Jumbo House.

No, you know that part of your background is Journalism…

(Chuckles) You know.

So, we expect that

Wait, listen now, he said we are going to brief the elders of the House.

Okay

Okay, and from what I gathered virtually every elder who was supposed to be invited was invited; only a few said they won’t come because…Sodienye said, from what I heard, he wouldn’t come because if it is Robert that will preside he won’t be in attendance.

But why will Robert preside over a meeting of elders when Sodienye is there?

Don’t forget that at a point, Sunny Tamunoibi, a few other person’s came together and made Robert co-chairman of Jumbo House, these are elders of the House.

Do they have the power to do that?

You ask them when you see them.

No, you said you were a member of the Elders’ Council at some point.

I was not a member of the Elders’ Council, I was a member of Chief Horace’s cabinet.

In your status as a cabinet member, are you not supposed to know the basic workings of the Jumbo’s House?

Basic workings of Jumbo’s House?

Yes, like now we know

See you’re talking of a crisis situation; listen, you’re talking…

No, let me land…

By this time the House has been balkanized, different groups, different things…

Does the crisis situation change the status quo, the construct, the structure of the Bonny traditional leadership system? If Bonny is in crisis, can anybody claim to be the Amanyanabo of Bonny? If Bonny is in crisis can anybody just come out and say ‘okay I’m in Finima now, I’m the Amanyanabo of Bonny or somebody in, maybe in Orupiri or Burukiri and say I’m now the Amanyanabo of Bonny and such person will convene a meeting and you will attend such meeting with the kind of background that you have?

My brother, it is the elders of Jumbo House who convened the meeting, okay?

But not the Elders’ Council…

I wouldn’t know because some of the elders, I mean they’re all elders, they’re elders…which one is Elders’ Council again? They’re all members of the Elders Council.

You’re a member of cabinet, and that places on you the onus of knowledge.

(Laughs) They’re all members of the Elders’ Council, all these people were there, you know?

That places on you the onus of knowledge, you should know the House functions, is a collection of elders of the House same thing as the Elders Council?

But when you have, listen, when you have up to about…I think that day they were up to about fifteen or more who were there, elders of Jumbo House who were there.  

Convened in one place?

Who were also members of the Elders’ Council, okay?

Yes

So, are you saying they’re different from the Elders’ Council? They’re not different.

So, in the Police officers now, if police men gather here and then they say there meeting as the leadership team of the Rivers State Police command any of the police men could claim to preside, could be nominated or asked to preside over the meeting in the absence of the Commissioner of Police.

When you talk of leadership of the police mistake, there are some persons you expect to be there, maybe the commissioner of police, deputy commissioners of the different house of the this thing or maybe area commanders and all that and if it were the same people who are there, okay they’re all there and then one of them is presiding, it’s presumed that’s presiding on the account of him being a member of the Elders Council. I am not the one to come and tell them who should be their leader and who should not be their leader.

No, we are not saying you should say who should be the leader or not. Okay let’s wrap up with the issues around the money…

That money issue…I am coming. Now, after that day, they decided and what they did was that they set up a committee of four persons to take custody of the funds.

Yes.

Myself, Asai, Mina H.H. Jumbo, his brother, and they added L.F. Jumbo you know, distinguished Amaopusenibo L.F. Jumbo to the finance committee. My grouse with the finance committee was because I suggested that let L.F. Jumbo be our chairman, number one, he is by far older than all of us, and you know in our culture we respect age. Number two, he is a distinguished finance person, a chartered accountant, a man who has distinguished himself, equipped himself, yes, very much in that particular field of human endeavour.

Yes.   

So, I felt he should be the best to be our chairman in that committee, which I also communicated to the youth when they wrote a letter requesting for some money. I said they should address it to L.F. Jumbo, as chairman and it didn’t go down with some members of the committee. I think that is where my grouse, my problem with the committee started and after then I withdrew. Alright, so, we were a four man committee set up to run the finance of the House, I don’t know if later L.F. Jumbo was brought in before I heard that Jasper had gone to court, had blocked the account, later I heard that, between him and Asai, they got an understanding and they shared the rest of the money. Whatever happened I don’t know, that’s still subject for investigation right now at Abuja. So, until police unravels what happened I wouldn’t know.