In this second franchise of the three part exclusive interview with Tamunoala Chapp-Jumbo, the current claimant to the stool of Okponkata, the founder of the Juwo Owubo (Jumbo) Major House of Bonny Kingdom, who has been determined to assert himself as the chief and head of the House in the past one year, Kristina Reports Publisher, Godswill Jumbo probes the origins of his guest.

The question of Chapp-Jumbo’s origin is imperative as the birth status of the occupant of any chieftaincy stool in Bonny Kingdom and across the Ijaw ethnic nationality, of which Bonny is a microcosm, is critical to ascension to the stool. Whether by election, selection or appointment, the person who would become the chief and head of a chieftaincy house must come from the house by birth and not a stranger. Chap-Jumbo’s responses to the various queries are refreshingly interesting, enjoy the read!

When you say Wilson, you mean Amaopusenibo Wilson Jumbo?

Yes…

You said he was the Vice Chairman of Chief Horace’s cabinet

Yes…

What about the man they call Adol?

Adol was also a member of the cabinet but Adol was Chairman of the Elders Council until his demise. After he died, Wari-Alabo Sodienye took over. But you see when we look at some things that have already gone wrong which was not corrected we now begin to see why some persons, even though they claim to be elders of Jumbo House cannot be said to be elders because these persons were dismissed by the late Se-Alabo Horace with documentary evidence. That is a matter that is still in court.

Which particular persons are you referencing here?   

I’m talking of Edmund of Tom Yellow-Belly; I’m talking of Sodienye of Edward Omoni Burusu and Kalada Jene; these three persons were dismissed by the Chief with documentary evidence. They went to court challenged it, tried to remove the Chief didn’t succeed.

Can we sight the documents you are referencing?

I will mail them to you after now. So, that they were not involved – just about three of them – was because the cabinet members felt that what Chief Horace had done should be sustained. When he was alive he removed them from cabinet, he removed them as elders of the House.

So, you are saying that the current Chairman of the Jumbo House Elders Council does not qualify to be a member of the Elders Council?

A court is already sitting on the issue and the court will decide on it because that is the position we have taken.

Was there a time you went to him to get a letter to be done to the Amanyanabo of Bonny, thanking him for appointing you into the Bonny-Bodo Road Project Monitoring Committee?

Fantastic.

How was he addressed in that letter?

How he was addressed?

Yes.

He was addressed as Chairman, okay? Reason being that at this time there were different factions in the House and though I served in the Caretaker Committee, I am also a distinguished elder of the House. We were trying to see how we can bring everybody together to unite the House. So, at that time while I was talking to him, talking to Jasper to see how we can bring the House together, it was only necessary to recognize them based on what they were claiming to be.

Was it what they were claiming to be or what they are?

It was what they were claiming to be, they are still claiming it.

Why I am asking is that Kristina Reports has in its possession a ruling by the High Court declaring that in the interim, the Caretaker Committee, as led by Jasper Jumbo should be left to function, and the Elders Council, as led by Sodienye Jumbo, should also function as a critical component of the traditional leadership system of Bonny Kingdom, which Jumbo House is a part of. Now, that is a competent court of law recognizing these two institutions as led by these two persons. Now, you are saying that they are claiming to be but the court has recognized them in that regard though we understand that that case is still ongoing and there is no final judgment on it yet.

Yes.

Can you actually say that they are claiming?   

I need to let you know also that that court did not say that the chief of the house is not an integral and important leadership factor in the house. And that case you mentioned is Bori High Court, Suit No. BHC/101/2016. When late Chief Horace wanted to join in that matter because he felt that this is a leadership issue in the House, ‘I’m the Chief of the House, I’ve not been removed’; though at that time he had issues with the Bonny Chiefs Council, he was on suspension. The Caretaker Committee and elders claimed they had removed him and all that. So, he came to court and said I want to join in this matter because I am chief of the house. What did the court say? The court ruled that this is not a chieftaincy matter. The implication is that: you are chief, this matter does not concern you. Be the chief that you are. Maybe, when they resolve they will come back and reconcile with the house. But you are still the chief. Now, whatever rulings and whatever pronouncements has been made does not in any way remove the role of the chief of the house which I am today. So, until these matters that are in court are settled we will now be able to come back and know because even as I am talking to you now, the matter that Sodienye, Edmund and Kalada took up against me in court in Okrika High Court is still subsisting. On the very first day of appearance, the court ruled that let all parties maintain status quo antebellum. What is that status quo? Simply, you came to us saying that a chief has been made but you are against him been made a chief, you are challenging it.

Is that actually what the court said?     

Of course.

And we can sight it?

Of course, you can sight it.

We would like to see it and also have a copy…

For now, let every party maintain status quo until this matter is settled and we are going to give you expedited proceedings to see that this matter is resolved as quickly as possible. The judge said that day that we know some of these things. You people just come and you get an injunction and then you keep taking long adjournments and then the matter continues and then the house is in disorder. We are not going to allow that to happen in this matter. We are going into this matter expeditiously and as quickly as possible the matter is over so that you can know how to move forward. So, with these two things in place now, you now know that nobody is challenging, the BHC/101/2016 did not say that there is no chief because it is not a chieftaincy matter. So, you cannot say that based on that there can’t be a chief, legally. Let’s go to the third issue.

We have to close out with the second one. We understand that that letter to the Amanyanabo of Bonny was drafted by you and you identified him, Wari-Alabo Sodienye Jumbo as Chairman of Jumbo House Elders Council. Now, if you did that, how come during the purported installation, he was not involved?     

Well, as an individual, I may have given him that regard but when the chief makers and other elders – and some of them are by far older than him and served longer than him – came together and said otherwise, I cannot challenge them.

But some people think you either acted out of convenience or you knew the implications of writing to the Amanyanabo and not recognizing this person the way he is supposed to be recognized

Writing to the Amanyanabo, how?

You didn’t want to take the risk of writing to the Amanyanabo and the letter comes to him and it is not signed by the person that is supposed to sign it in the absence of Chief Horace…

No, no, no…listen, there were many persons who could have signed it.

Are you saying that anybody could have written to the Amanyanabo?  

Of course. The Chairman of Horace’s cabinet could have signed it. Robert, who at the time was also leading a faction, could have signed it. And I have a copy of a letter written by Robert as chairman of Jumbo House and I told you that there were different factions.  

So, you were going round getting different letters from different people to have your way depending on whatever it is you were chasing at that time, is that it?

Certainly, I met with virtually every factions and everybody because I don’t belong to any faction.

You gave to Caesar what is Caesar’s and God what was God’s…

It depends who is God and who is Caesar here now. But the fact is that I don’t belong to any faction. I am one individual who wants to bring everybody together and that has been my campaign from the onset; we must all come together and see how we can move our house forward because without coming together, without that unity we cannot make progress.

Which particular elder nominated you to be chief and who are the other persons who were also nominated to be chief because the process of making a chief in Bonny Kingdom as a whole is not a one way street?

Now, that issue is already in court, it is not what I will come and begin to discuss on the pages of the newspaper. Right now, it’s a matter before the court.

Ok, let’s move on to the aspect of your qualifications to be a chief…

Well, what are the qualifications to be a chief in Jumbo House?

We would want to know from you…

Laughs…………

Especially, now that you are asserting yourself as the chief of Jumbo House.

Now, let me tell you this: nobody has come, you know to the best of my knowledge, to challenge my qualifications to be a chief of Jumbo House. I don’t know of any such person and if there is any, the person should be able to go to court.

The Insinuations that by birth you are not from Bonny and that disqualifies you from being a chief, is it valid?

It is very, very invalid; very, very wrong. It is a very wrong insinuation. Very, very wrong.

So, you mean anybody can be a chief in Bonny?

Ahh! You are asking this question?

Whether you are from Bonny or not?

That is why I asked you: what are the qualifications for someone to be a chief in Bonny?

No, we are asking, we are journalists; we want to know so that we can inform the public properly…

When you look at the Jumbo House constitution, you can see the qualifications, right? And I am eminently qualified to be and if anybody thinks otherwise let the person go to court and challenge me.

Ok, what is that provision in that constitution that you are referencing that qualifies you to be chief?

Now, the constitution says that any adult male of Jumbo House, okay?

Of Jumbo House?

Yes, and if anybody thinks I am not an adult male of Jumbo House let the person go to court and challenge it.

But does anybody have to go to court?

Ahh! That is what I am asking now. It is the same question I am asking.

But is it true that none of your parents are from Bonny? 

Says who?

No, I am asking, you know your parents, I don’t know them; I never met them.  

If it’s true?

Yes.  

That none of my parents are from Bonny?

Yes

That’s wrong. 

It’s not true?

It’s not true.

Okay, can we know them and know which families they come from in Jumbo House?

I am of Igbiselegha Okponkata stock, okay? That is enough for now, whatever things you would want to know I will let you know.  

We would want to know who your mother is and who your father is and which stock in Jumbo House do they emanate from.

Ok, let me make this very clear. Maybe, if I begin to go into details now, I will now begin to step beyond what I should say now because already I heard that some persons intend going to court on this issue. So, let me not arm them with information that will help them to think they have a case.

But, Sir, if somebody asks me who is my mother and who is my father? How difficult is that to identify my own parents?

No, it is not a difficult thing but it is subject to my own personal decision.

But as per now, you are no more on the personal level, you are alluding to a position that involves over 28 communities, about 50 families, and like maybe two million people, to be modest…

Now, let me tell you this…

So, if you are now asserting yourself to be sitting on the destiny of these huge number of persons and institution, don’t you think then that your origin is of importance to these people?

Now, let me tell u something…

And it has nothing to do with whether someone is going to court or not…

This issue came up in a forum and while I was about attending to it, my legal counsel said ‘leave that matter for now, if anybody wants to tell you let the person go to court. Then we can tell the person if the person wants to know. So, for now, I want to take the advice of my counsel on that issue.

But you are from the Chapp-Jumbo family, is that correct?

Of course.

And you don’t want to tell us who are your parents inside the Chapp-Jumbo family?

I don’t think that is needful for now.  

Okay, we learnt that your original name is Chikadibia, and that is what you translated to Ibani as Tamunoala, is that correct?

All my life as a child growing up, I’ve been known as Tamunoala.

So, where did the Chikadibia come from?

It is not even Chikadibia, okay? Tamunoalanengim means that God is greater than wealth or anything whatsoever.

God is greater than royalty?

Now, my mother is from Ogba are you hearing me?

Yes.

Now, in her native Ogba tongue, that is what it translates to because Ogba speaks the same type of Igbo here. So, you know one thing that is common among people is that even if you have an Ibani name, if your mother wants to give you a name, she can give you a name except those who don’t understand Ibani. But those who understand will know that Tamunoalanengim means that when it is translated to Igbo. It means that God is greater than wealth or greater than any other thing. So, all my life, right from a tender age, I’ve been known as Tamunoala Chapp-Jumbo. 

So, for us to move on can we conclude that you don’t want the people you want to lead to know your origin?

They know already…

They know? We’ve asked around, a lot of people don’t know.

Really? If they don’t they will come to me

Do they have to come to you?

Of course, if they think they don’t know.  

People don’t have to go to Government House to ask the Governor where he comes from; people can just get the information anywhere. They know he is an Ikwerre man or he is from so and so community and so and so family. They know even the family of his parents and all of that and they don’t have to go to Government House to ask him.

Of course.

He even had to make the effort to put down the information on Wikipedia and other places so you just Google and it is there.  

The people are all aware.  

So, you are saying all the Jumbo House members are aware?

I am surprised at who is not aware, I am surprised, sincerely.